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If the Supra on 0W-20 were experiencing widespread lubrication-related failures while BMW versions survived on 5W-30, that would be meaningful evidence. But simply having different factory recommendations for the same engine family doesn’t automatically establish superiority one way or the other.

Nobody said 0W-20 is “too thick to fit through passages.” That’s just a caricature of the argument. The point has always been that modern engines are engineered and validated around specific oil characteristics — flow, pressure behavior, film strength, startup performance, VVT operation, fuel...

I think we’re actually closer in position than you realize. I’ve never said people “can’t” run thicker oil. I’ve repeatedly acknowledged the engine is clearly capable of operating across a viscosity range. If someone prefers running 0W-30 or 5W-30 for peace of mind under heavy load or heat...

Because Toyota clearly believes the engine is capable of operating across a range of adjacent viscosities depending on regional priorities, climate assumptions, fuel economy targets, oil availability, and operating expectations. I’ve never disputed that. What I keep disputing is the conclusion...

Some posters absolutely have implied that — either directly or indirectly — by repeatedly framing 0W-20 as a CAFE-driven compromise sitting dangerously close to inadequate. That’s very different from simply saying: “Toyota allows multiple viscosities globally.” I’ve already acknowledged the...

You’re still arguing “acceptable range,” while I’m addressing claims of superiority. I’ve never denied Toyota allows different viscosities in different markets. In fact, I’ve acknowledged multiple times that the engine is clearly capable of operating across a viscosity range depending on...

Wanting evidence before declaring something “better” isn’t exactly a controversial standard. Also, asking people to support their claims with actual data is not an ad hominem. Calling engineers “bean counters,” calling people cognitively dissonant, and turning the discussion into politics...

This is actually a much better argument than most of the thread because you’ve finally narrowed it down to “margin” instead of trying to claim 0W-20 is outright inadequate. Where I still disagree is the assumption that “more margin” automatically translates into meaningfully better long-term...

And now we’ve officially left the oil discussion and entered political meme territory. For the record, I’m not arguing that manufacturers are infallible. Axle issues, recalls, and spec revisions absolutely happen. The GM bearing example already proved that point. What I am saying is that...

That’s a much more reasonable position, honestly. I don’t disagree that, in a purely theoretical sense, a thicker oil may maintain its viscosity margin better at extreme temperatures and loads. That’s basic tribology. Where I’ve pushed back is when that gets presented as if it has already been...

This is probably one of the more reasonable takes in the thread because you’re no longer arguing that 0W-20 is inadequate — just that a thicker oil might offer advantages under certain severe operating conditions. That’s a much narrower and more defensible claim. Where I still disagree is the...

This bulletin doesn’t prove thicker oil is better. It proves Toyota considers nearby viscosities acceptable as temporary substitutes during supply shortages. Big difference. The specified viscosity is still the baseline recommendation—which is exactly the point I’ve been making.

I was just using SARC "SARC" is the first four letters of Sarcasm. I have been using Sarcasm since I was 5 Hopefully you were just joking though............:p

Isn't a "Taco" technically a food item? Maybe your response belongs on a Mexican dish thread? Although it could mean that a certain individual always chickens out as well? 🤔

I don’t think anyone is claiming OEMs are altruistic or that cost engineering doesn’t exist. Of course it does. But there’s a pretty big leap from: “manufacturers optimize costs” to “their oil recommendations are basically meaningless.” Your radiator example actually proves the opposite point...

The interesting part is how “physics and chemistry” always get cited as proof, while actual measured durability improvements remain mostly theoretical. Nobody disputes that a thicker oil can provide a thicker film under certain conditions. The debate is whether that translates into meaningful...

John Deere is inferior to Kubota.

That’s actually a pretty reasonable approach, especially how you phased things in after break-in. You’re right about the 0W rating maintaining strong cold-start flow, which is a big deal in modern engines with tight tolerances and turbo components. That’s a big part of why OEMs prioritize it. On...

A single UOA doesn’t prove your point—and it doesn’t prove mine. That’s exactly why OEM validation carries more weight than forum samples.

I gotta admit it, that actually made me laugh........:) Now can we give the memes a rest? I am guessing not. :p