5w-30

[32spoke]

You’re forgetting your own argument earlier on. It was you that refuted oil analyses because you said there are too many variables. So essentially nobody can prove anything to you because you’ve already decided there is no trustworthy data besides “the manual.”

He is moving the goalposts-a common debate fallacy

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[32spoke]

It’ll be interesting to see how this case turns out

https://www.autoblog.com/news/valvoline-sued-after-using-the-wrong-oil-in-customers-engine

Unless that plaintiff has oil analysis to prove engine wear, or accelerated wear.. Kia engines are known for failing… that said, I sell lots of Mobil 1 0W30 to my local Kia dealership. Likely the Kia owner is looking for a settlement

I didn’t reject oil analysis—I rejected it as conclusive proof.


There’s a difference. It shows trends, not controlled outcomes.


That’s why I default to the manufacturer spec—because that is based on controlled testing.






Probably right—without controlled data, we’re just repeating opinions at this point.


I’ll stick with what’s actually been validated for the vehicle.

do you know why the Volkswagen Audi Group developed 502 spec oil? They developed this oil because the oil they recommended for their engines was turning to sludge- therefore the oil they recommended from their “control group” was destroying their engines…. They had to research as to why the oil was failing, the oil they recommend sold at their independently owned dealerships and engineer an oil blend, robust enough to withstand the rigor/demand of the engine. I guess they didn’t catch that oil issue that they validated for their engines..

Do you know why CK-4 spec diesel oil was developed by the American Petroleum institute? They created an oil that had an anti stiction addictive for problems that occur to every 6.0 and 7.3 liter ford HEUI fuel injectors. The aftermarket came up with the fix before the American Petroleum Institute, and Ford never engineered a “long term” control group .. they did nothing. I guess they didn’t catch that issue with their validated oil recommendation

are you claiming that Toyota has had a long term control group, if so can you provide any proof to back this up?

Anyone can google stiction issues with ford injectors on 6.0 and 7.3 injectors and also google the difference between CK4 spec and The prior CJ4 spec.
Same with 502 spec oil. Audi engine oil sludge and why the state of Massachusetts required an extra engine life warranty for any oil related engine failure. All of this is demonstrably proven.

 

[DENNISD]

Unless that plaintiff has oil analysis to prove engine wear, or accelerated wear.. Kia engines are known for failing… that said, I sell lots of Mobil 1 0W30 to my local Kia dealership. Likely the Kia owner is looking for a settlement

do you know why the Volkswagen Audi Group developed 502 spec oil? They developed this oil because the oil they recommended for their engines was turning to sludge- therefore the oil they recommended from their “control group” was destroying their engines…. They had to research as to why the oil was failing, the oil they recommend sold at their independently owned dealerships and engineer an oil blend, robust enough to withstand the rigor/demand of the engine. I guess they didn’t catch that oil issue that they validated for their engines..

Do you know why CK-4 spec diesel oil was developed by the American Petroleum institute? They created an oil that had an anti stiction addictive for problems that occur to every 6.0 and 7.3 liter ford HEUI fuel injectors. The aftermarket came up with the fix before the American Petroleum Institute, and Ford never engineered a “long term” control group .. they did nothing. I guess they didn’t catch that issue with their validated oil recommendation

are you claiming that Toyota has had a long term control group, if so can you provide any proof to back this up?

Anyone can google stiction issues with ford injectors on 6.0 and 7.3 injectors and also google the difference between CK4 spec and The prior CJ4 spec.
Same with 502 spec oil. Audi engine oil sludge and why the state of Massachusetts required an extra engine life warranty for any oil related engine failure. All of this is demonstrably proven.

Those are good examples—but they actually support my point, not yours.


In both cases (VW 502 and CK-4), the issues were identified through large-scale, real-world failures and then addressed by the manufacturers or industry with updated specifications. That’s the system working—problems show up, data accumulates, and the spec gets revised.


That’s very different from an individual deciding ahead of time that a different viscosity is better without that level of data behind it.


And no—I’m not claiming Toyota has a perfect, infinite “control group.” I’m saying their spec is based on far more testing and validation than anything we can replicate with scattered oil analyses or cross-market comparisons.


If there were widespread failures tied to 0W-20 in this engine, we’d expect to see the same pattern: TSBs, spec changes, warranty actions. That’s exactly what happened in the examples you gave.


Until that happens, those examples don’t prove thicker oil is better here—they just show that when something actually is wrong, manufacturers adjust.


So again, if someone wants to deviate, that’s their choice—but it’s still not backed by the kind of evidence that drove those changes you’re referencing.

 

[32spoke]

Those are good examples—but they actually support my point, not yours.


In both cases (VW 502 and CK-4), the issues were identified through large-scale, real-world failures and then addressed by the manufacturers or industry with updated specifications. That’s the system working—problems show up, data accumulates, and the spec gets revised.


That’s very different from an individual deciding ahead of time that a different viscosity is better without that level of data behind it.


And no—I’m not claiming Toyota has a perfect, infinite “control group.” I’m saying their spec is based on far more testing and validation than anything we can replicate with scattered oil analyses or cross-market comparisons.


If there were widespread failures tied to 0W-20 in this engine, we’d expect to see the same pattern: TSBs, spec changes, warranty actions. That’s exactly what happened in the examples you gave.


Until that happens, those examples don’t prove thicker oil is better here—they just show that when something actually is wrong, manufacturers adjust.


So again, if someone wants to deviate, that’s their choice—but it’s still not backed by the kind of evidence that drove those changes you’re referencing.

Everything I cite “supports your claim”

glad I could help. Can you advise all of us as to why those engineers that chose the engine oils that caused damage to their own engines? I cited mistakes from OEM manufacturers for oil for their own engines. GM recently bumped up oil spec requirements for their 6.2 liter engines to protect engine bearing better on some engines with suspected bearing/crank clearance issues. GM also bumped up the warranty on those engines too.
If you choose 0w20, that’s certainly your choice. Since the identical engine with the identical components in multiple continents, offer 10w30 from zero degrees Fahrenheit. Oil spec is in Yuma, AZ- 0w20, yet five miles south, Toyota recommends 0w20 viscosity oil for mileage and 5w20, 5w30, and 10w30.. it’s about the temperature- Russia Toyota manuals recommend 0w20 and…. 5w30- climate is similar to Canada and the United States. Ukraine, and Georgia recommend the same as the Russian t24a-fts engine… Spain recommends the same as Mexico…. If I lived in a colder climate, I would possibly consider 0w20. But since 5w30 is ok for below zero degree temps, I’ll use 5w30 since I travel to AZ a fair bit and where I live, maybe I get frost 5 days per year… Garret turbo website recommends starting at 5w30 and increasing viscosity from there…. BMW uses a 0w20 oil on turbocharged engines, but they have a bmw spec 01fe which will also reaffirm your claim, right? Even though that oil has some additional scrutiny that relates to that specific engine, and those bmw engines don’t tow, don’t off-road and don’t weigh nearly as much as the Tacoma can..

Choose 0w20.. that’s fine, but anyone considering this as the best oil option for warm weather is either someone that doesn’t want to admit CAFE requirements have driven this decision, or suffer from cognitive dissonance. The citations I have provided, will help those that are open minded

 

[DENNISD]

Everything I cite “supports your claim”

glad I could help. Can you advise all of us as to why those engineers that chose the engine oils that caused damage to their own engines? I cited mistakes from OEM manufacturers for oil for their own engines. GM recently bumped up oil spec requirements for their 6.2 liter engines to protect engine bearing better on some engines with suspected bearing/crank clearance issues. GM also bumped up the warranty on those engines too.
If you choose 0w20, that’s certainly your choice. Since the identical engine with the identical components in multiple continents, offer 10w30 from zero degrees Fahrenheit. Oil spec is in Yuma, AZ- 0w20, yet five miles south, Toyota recommends 0w20 viscosity oil for mileage and 5w20, 5w30, and 10w30.. it’s about the temperature- Russia Toyota manuals recommend 0w20 and…. 5w30- climate is similar to Canada and the United States. Ukraine, and Georgia recommend the same as the Russian t24a-fts engine… Spain recommends the same as Mexico…. If I lived in a colder climate, I would possibly consider 0w20. But since 5w30 is ok for below zero degree temps, I’ll use 5w30 since I travel to AZ a fair bit and where I live, maybe I get frost 5 days per year… Garret turbo website recommends starting at 5w30 and increasing viscosity from there…. BMW uses a 0w20 oil on turbocharged engines, but they have a bmw spec 01fe which will also reaffirm your claim, right? Even though that oil has some additional scrutiny that relates to that specific engine, and those bmw engines don’t tow, don’t off-road and don’t weigh nearly as much as the Tacoma can..

Choose 0w20.. that’s fine, but anyone considering this as the best oil option for warm weather is either someone that doesn’t want to admit CAFE requirements have driven this decision, or suffer from cognitive dissonance. The citations I have provided, will help those that are open minded

You’re still arguing a different point than I am.


I never said manufacturers are infallible. Obviously they are not. Your examples from VW, GM, and diesel specs all show that manufacturers can get things wrong and later revise their recommendations.


What I said is much narrower: until Toyota changes the spec for this engine in this market, there is no conclusive evidence that a thicker oil is better for my use case.


Yes, other markets allow broader viscosity ranges. Yes, climate and operating conditions matter. Yes, CAFE likely plays a role. None of that automatically proves that 5W-30 is the superior choice for every U.S. Tacoma owner.


That is the leap you keep trying to make.


If you choose 5W-30 because of your climate, towing, travel, or personal risk tolerance, that’s a reasonable personal decision. But that is still different from proving Toyota’s U.S. recommendation is wrong or that 5W-30 is universally the “best” option.


So I’m not denying that other viscosities can be appropriate in certain conditions. I’m saying that for a U.S.-market truck, 0W-20 is still the published baseline, and moving away from that is an owner choice unless and until Toyota says otherwise.


That’s not cognitive dissonance. That’s just drawing a line between preference, inference, and proof.

 

[djevans]

Who's using 5w-30. Lots agree that 0-20 is for CAFE standards or EPA BS. I believe in 0-20 as much as I believe in 10k oil changes.

Any of you guys running 5w-30? Have you done an oil analysis?
Getting ready to do my first oil change at 1k, then switch to 5w-30 pending real world reasons not too?

I do oil analysis at every oil change. (500, 5000, 10000 miles) At the 10k test, Blackstone said the engine was progressing "very nicely." (only light towing so far - around 5,500 pounds)

I'd like to consider 5W30, but as some have mentioned, "Warranty..." I won't even consider it until I'm out of warranty. And even then, I probably would try 0-30 only... (that turbo keeps my attention)

 

[Will721]

Another metric I would consider is oil temperature. Under high stress like slow off loading, desert driving, and heavy towing oil temperature will climb. Oil analysis is fine, but without a proper stress test it would be less conclusive. A test which I'm sure Toyota did was measuring different oil temps at stress to different oil types and viscosity. It could very well be the reason they chose not to go with 5-30 was due to increased oil temps which would both increase wear and shorten oil life when the engine was under high loads.

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