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KO3 sidewall protection C vs E

astroboy

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One last point of clarification here. Some Mfgs could absolutely enringeer their higher load rated tires to have more puncture resistance sidewalls. It's just the devil is in the details and you shouldn't assume that to be true. BFG has chosen not to do that.

Other manufactures actually have weaker sidewalls with regard to puncture resistance/abrasion on their E load tires compared to a C load counterpart within the same product line. Falken is a great example of this. Some of their Wildpeak AT4W tires have an "HD" sidewall in E load and that is actually a 2 ply, while a C load in the same rim size and product has the Duraspec sidewall that is 3 ply and more puncture resistant.

So we should help educate others here that it is important not to assume that "E is stronger than C".

Well, you do learn something new everyday. I was debating whether I should go for E or C on the KO3s. I opted for C simply because of the wieght. Good to know that the said rating has minimal bearing to the strength of the sidewall.
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JayTech

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You can believe this to be true, but It is simply incorrect. An E rated ko2 or 3 isn’t ā€œstrongerā€ than a C load. BFG engineers have even confirmed this. It’s a very common misconception.

I understand this might not be intuitive to most people. But, nonetheless higher load rating BFG off-road tires do not have stronger, more puncture resistant sidewalls once you get into the LT tires.

Construction changes to allow higher psi and hence an increased load are not overlapping with sidewall puncture protection. a lot of the changes are actually in the tread bed and design on these to allow for more tread block stability and weight support. Pretty interesting to dig into.
I am sorry but I highly doubt an engineer said that. That goes completely against what a load rating is even for. You do not just increase the tires belt construction to handle increased load, but the entire tire, including its sidewall, and stiffness of the rubber compound. And while its ply count for both might be 3 as you previously stated, they have a ply rating, which is a direct indicator of the tires strength which the C rated is a 6 ply rating, and the E is a 10 ply rating. You cannot have almost double the load capacity in a tire without changing its entire compound. Especially if they are both only 3 ply(layers) as you said. And tires that have a stiffer, more reinforced(stronger) compound naturally resist punctures more than one that is softer. I worked at the Bridgestone tire plant for 5 years and what that engineer supposedly said just doesn't make any sense. I can understand in the case of the Falken, as even if the E rated is more reinforced stiffness, because it has less overall layers it ends up not being helping, but in tires that effectively have the same layer count, the E rated tire should always be stronger.
 

Briscoelab

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There is no difference in tire *compound* between load C and E rated BFG KO2/3 tires.

Also the ply rating is actually in fact an increase in effective plies in the treadbed on these tires. It's an actual 3 ply sidewall and 7 ply effective tread on the E.

Ultimately, any of these will be fine. Heck, I'm running a E, because that is all that was offered in the size I needed. But if given a choice I'd definitely be on a C.

The C in a BFG has excellent sidewall protection and will offer a better ride and less weight. Certainly, run what load rating you like. But know that anecdotal evidence or that you think something should be true, doesn't make it so.
 
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Briscoelab

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Enjoy the new tires! You did good :)

Well, you do learn something new everyday. I was debating whether I should go for E or C on the KO3s. I opted for C simply because of the wieght. Good to know that the said rating has minimal bearing to the strength of the sidewall.
 

JayTech

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There is no difference in tire *compound* between load C and E rated BFG KO2/3 tires.

Also the ply rating is actually in fact an increase in effective plies in the treadbed on these tires. It's an actual 3 ply sidewall and 7 ply effective tread on the E.
Ply rating is not always an increase in the amount of actual plies it has. While that used to be the case and while some still follow that, some tires call themselves 6 ply because they have the equivalent strength of a traditional tire with 6 layers.
And you CAN NOT increase a tires load capacity by just changing the ply under the tread of the tire. You HAVE to increase the strength of the sidewall. E rated tires have almost double the load capacity. The sidewall has to be reinforced to handle all that extra weight. And they do this by changing the construction within the tire. Whether they stiffen the rubber(by using different ingredients to increase its rigidity), switch the inner layers material or simply using a stronger type of that material.
 

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Briscoelab

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I never said they increased the actual plies the tire has. In fact I said quite the opposite. It's interesting you change your message every post. 1st it's this... then it's that. I also never said that BFG didn't change the design of the sidewall on the E. Only that the E does not have increased puncture resistance in the sidewall. They also changed the actual tread design on some of the E rated tires too, to offer increased squirm resistance and performance that an HD truck might need.

Just because a sidewall of a tire might support a higher load rating or be stiffer does not directly translate to the tire having increased sidewall puncture resistance. It just means it was designed with a different set of performance parameters as a goal.

I don't think it's worth arguing this to death here, especially given both load rating BFG tires are excellent. My goal is to share info with others here to not blindly following the notion that tires meant for 3/4 ton and 1 ton+ pickup trucks used for towing applications necessarily translate to a more durable sidewall. Likewise, they might not be the best choice for our very lightweight (comparatively) trucks and the downsides should be considered. This coming from a person running an E load KO3 on a Tacoma.

Again, other manufactures that make popular tires for our vehicles actually make the sidewalls in their E rated tires less durable than their C counterpart. This is of course despite them having a much higher load rating on the E. It's just design priorities.

Modern tires no longer add physical plies for more load rating in general. It's a notional concept from tires of yore. Carcass changes for more capacity are generally reinforcement for more tire pressures, including finer belt spacing per inch and higher gauge belts. It's possible they do adjust thickness of layers to your point, so it's plausible though not always that there is incrementally more puncture resistance. BFG has stated in interviews their load C and E KO2s have the same puncture resistance. I trust them in regard to this. I've ran E and C BFGs in the same size in the past and the Cs were definitely more comfortable on lightweight vehicles. I'm now on an E KO3, because I wanted a 275/70R18 and that is all that's offered. Luckily BFGs aren't terribly stiff in the higher load ranges (I'm looking at you Mickey Thomson). It's also why I didn't choose the same size in a Falken AT4W, given they are load E yet only have a 2 ply sidewall in that size (ie, worst of both worlds).

Again, run what you'd like. :thumbsup: We're all on the same side.
 
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Dirt

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One last point of clarification here. Some Mfgs could absolutely engineer their higher load rated tires to have more puncture resistance sidewalls. It's just the devil is in the details and you shouldn't assume that to be true. BFG has chosen not to do that.

Other manufactures actually have weaker sidewalls with regard to puncture resistance/abrasion on their E load tires compared to a C load counterpart within the same product line. Falken is a great example of this. Some of their Wildpeak AT4W tires have an "HD" sidewall in E load and that is actually a 2 ply, while a C load in the same rim size and product has the Duraspec sidewall that is 3 ply and more puncture resistant.

So we should help educate others here that it is important not to assume that "E is stronger than C".
What are you referencing? How do you know your info is accurate? "It's on the internet so it must be true."
 

Briscoelab

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Hey @Dirt I'm confused as to what you're referencing here.

If regarding Falken then yes... the internet does say it to be so, in and of so much as it is direct from the MFG published information. I trust them to be honest in this respect, as they definitely tout the Duraspec sidewalls to be 3 ply and more puncture resistant in their lineup.

Falken AT4W HD tires have a 2 ply sidewall (encompassing MANY popular E load tires), Falken Duraspec tires have a 3 ply sidewall (found on many C load tires), Falken HD Duraspec tires have a 3 ply sidewall. This is easy to find and verify. Again, that is all direct from Falken and published. They are explicit in which tires are more puncture resistant with respect to sidewall for their off-road tires... direct from the horses mouth, as it were. Not sure they would have reason to lie about their own tires. I would absolutely run any KO3 (C or E load) over a 2 ply AT4W E load if I were concerned about sidewall durability.

Likewise you definitely should not assume an E load Goodyear Duratrac (that we all know has a weak 2 ply sidewall) has more puncture resistance then a KO2 or 3 (regardless if it has a C or E load rating). Tire design philosophy and priorities trump load ratings for lots of aspects regarding a given tire's performance, including sidewall durability.

I realize this takes some digging and likely doesn't matter for even 80% of people posting on this forum... let alone the general population using these trucks. But it does still matter... and we shouldn't blindly spout outdated, demonstrably incorrect information that might be taken as gospel by new users actually interested in learning the details. Cheers! :thumbsup:
 
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JayTech

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I never said they increased the actual plies the tire has. In fact I said quite the opposite. It's interesting you change your message every post. 1st it's this... then it's that. I also never said that BFG didn't change the design of the sidewall on the E. Only that the E does not have increased puncture resistance in the sidewall. They also changed the actual tread design on some of the E rated tires too, to offer increased squirm resistance and performance that an HD truck might need.

Just because a sidewall of a tire might support a higher load rating or be stiffer does not directly translate to the tire having increased sidewall puncture resistance. It just means it was designed with a different set of performance parameters as a goal.

I don't think it's worth arguing this to death here, especially given both load rating BFG tires are excellent. My goal is to share info with others here to not blindly following the notion that tires meant for 3/4 ton and 1 ton+ pickup trucks used for towing applications necessarily translate to a more durable sidewall. Likewise, they might not be the best choice for our very lightweight (comparatively) trucks and the downsides should be considered. This coming from a person running an E load KO3 on a Tacoma.

Again, other manufactures that make popular tires for our vehicles actually make the sidewalls in their E rated tires less durable than their C counterpart. This is of course despite them having a much higher load rating on the E. It's just design priorities.

Modern tires no longer add physical plies for more load rating in general. It's a notional concept from tires of yore. Carcass changes for more capacity are generally reinforcement for more tire pressures, including finer belt spacing per inch and higher gauge belts. It's possible they do adjust thickness of layers to your point, so it's plausible though not always that there is incrementally more puncture resistance. BFG has stated in interviews their load C and E KO2s have the same puncture resistance. I trust them in regard to this. I've ran E and C BFGs in the same size in the past and the Cs were definitely more comfortable on lightweight vehicles. I'm now on an E KO3, because I wanted a 275/70R18 and that is all that's offered. Luckily BFGs aren't terribly stiff in the higher load ranges (I'm looking at you Mickey Thomson). It's also why I didn't choose the same size in a Falken AT4W, given they are load E yet only have a 2 ply sidewall in that size (ie, worst of both worlds).

Again, run what you'd like. :thumbsup: We're all on the same side.
I am not trying to argue, nor am I really changing what I say. When I talk about the tires compound or construction and when I say the sidewall is being reinforced, I am still talking about the same thing. While some manufacturers might still increase the overall ply count, the ones that do not, either change the material inside the rubber from polyester to rayon, nylon, steel etc or use more of that material in a single denser layer. Some also put different ingredients in the rubber to change the compound to stiffen it up.(Like how Michelin adds sunflower oil to the rubber to enhance traction). This naturally creates a harder to puncture surface. Something soft is easier to stab with a knife than something stiff.(Even if only slightly). Thats all I was trying to get at. Its how we did it at the Bridgestone plant.

But getting back on the original subject, C rated tires are more than capable and E rated aren't really necessary when you factor in they typically come with a harsher ride quality and less gas mileage(due to weight). And you will never put the tires load rating to full use.
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