Fixing JBL Audio System (center dash speaker balance)

[fredygump]

•edit• I have no idea why I can’t quote when using my phone.

Fair enough, you have your opinion, I have mine. I am a little confused though, on a couple things. When you were demoing the sound with and without the tinny, I mean tiny, center speaker, why would you put your head in the middle of the cabin? Does anyone, aside from gangsters, drive like that? What you’re “not” hearing is the cabin null created from the all-pass and band-pass filters Toyota puts on the left side of the cabin, to create the illusion of a center image while driving.

Second, you do realize there are 4 speakers up in the dash area? 2 tweeters in the a-pillars and 2 mids in the dash corners. You’re right., just tweeters wouldn’t be enough for any sound system.

Lastly, um, yes, yes you should be able to hear the center speaker from the center of the cabin. It’s placed in such a way so as to aim directly at the windshield and reflect into the cabin. What sort of dispersion pattern do you think a small Bluetooth speaker has? If it’s too much, when used at the picnic, you’d get next-to-no satisfactory sound at anything more than 10 feet (a quick guess), but obviously with a narrower pattern, the perceived sound (key phrase) is better. You’re assigning characteristics to a cheap add-on that aren’t there.

We could go back-and-forth for a while, but it really boils down to choice. You choose to have your “center” speaker, I choose to tape mine off. I was simply offering a way to disable the Bluetooth speaker while not draining the battery. You told me I was wrong to have a choice.

It was always clear that you had made up your mind.


For the sake of people who want to get past the polarized opinions and understand how the system works, the system divides a 2 channel source into 3 channels.

The center channel is made up of everything that is the same between the left and right channels. Everything that is unique to the right channel stays in the right, and the same for the left. Home theater receivers have been doing this for decades.

The center channel is the most important, carrying the majority of the vocals, the same as with home theater center channel.

As i said before, the system is not able to revert to 2 channel when the center channel is disabled, so disabling it results in losing everything that was intended for the center channel!

If you want to test this for yourself, you can observe it easily. Start by leaning so your head is on the center line of the cab. This lets you hear in proper stereo, being equal distance from left and right speakers. Then connect and disconnect the center channel while playing music. You will notice that the sound from the left and right speakers stays the same, but a big chunk of the audio simply goes away when the center channel is unplugged.

The impact of disabling the center channel on audio quality depends on how each song is recorded.


But yeah, the choice is yours! I'm just saying that the system is competently designed by people who know what they're doing, and if you give it a chance and try to work with the system, it is actually pretty good!

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[The Dude]

It was always clear that you had made up your mind.


For the sake of people who want to get past the polarized opinions and understand how the system works, the system divides a 2 channel source into 3 channels.

The center channel is made up of everything that is the same between the left and right channels. Everything that is unique to the right channel stays in the right, and the same for the left. Home theater receivers have been doing this for decades.

The center channel is the most important, carrying the majority of the vocals, the same as with home theater center channel.

As i said before, the system is not able to revert to 2 channel when the center channel is disabled, so disabling it results in losing everything that was intended for the center channel!

If you want to test this for yourself, you can observe it easily. Start by leaning so your head is on the center line of the cab. This lets you hear in proper stereo, being equal distance from left and right speakers. Then connect and disconnect the center channel while playing music. You will notice that the sound from the left and right speakers stays the same, but a big chunk of the audio simply goes away when the center channel is unplugged.

The impact of disabling the center channel on audio quality depends on how each song is recorded.


But yeah, the choice is yours! I'm just saying that the system is competently designed by people who know what they're doing, and if you give it a chance and try to work with the system, it is actually pretty good!

So, on some of what you said, I agree.

Yes, the center speaker is summed from the front left and right. Correct.

The system WASN’T designed solely to be a 5-channel setup, and ONLY functions well as that. What are you proposing with this? Toyota spent $5k+ for each truck with JBL to have a processor that extrapolates from a stereo signal a surround sound one, thus giving the truck a true “center voiced” speaker? A speaker that probably costs $60 to produce, and when the battery fails and it doesn’t make sound anymore, almost no one will replace it? Toyota is using half-decent drivers for the front 6-channels, but a cheap, disposable, tinny, buzzy Bluetooth speaker for the “anchor” in the soundstage? How is it , then, that I and countless others are more that happy removing said speaker from the equation?

I have also tested how it sounds with and without said Bluetooth toy, and I can confidently tell you, I’m missing NOTHING when it comes to sound in the truck in its stock form. The impact comes down to the mastering, really? Have you seen or visited recording/mastering studios? I have. They’re rocking with $10k+ B&W, Monitor, even JBL speakers. Nowhere, in any that I’ve seen, has there been one Bluetooth speaker. Why? Because they’re mastering full-range signals, not the sound for a cheap 100Hz to 14k Hz (a guess from tests of other bt speakers on Audio Review) bt soeaker. Why would any manufacturer invest money in improving the soundstage by designing a decent 3-way setup, then hobble it by making “the most important speaker” a piece of garbage?

Your reasoning makes little sense.

 

[Kodachrome]

How is it , then, that I and countless others are more that happy removing said speaker from the equation?

Because internet born irritants are contagious...;-)

 

[The Dude]

Because internet born irritants are contagious...;-)

 

[fredygump]

Why would any manufacturer invest money in improving the soundstage by designing a decent 3-way setup, then hobble it by making “the most important speaker” a piece of garbage?

Maybe I have been a bit tone deaf. I wanted to explain the positives of the JBL system and how it works, along with a small tweak that I thought made it sound better...but I wasn't really listening to your concerns!

To address your concerns directly, yes, I think you need to upgrade your system. It appears that your present and future happiness depends on it! But beware, an audio shop might do you like Toyota did, and install silly, unimpressive little speakers!

You keep talking about the little center channel, so lets focus on that. How hard would it be to install a bigger center channel speaker? I personally would opt for coaxial speaker, given the limited space.

And for the left and right, I really like my horn + compression drivers combo. These compression drivers are useful down to 500hz, so they can easily cross to the woofers in the door, which simplifies the design.

I took a few pictures just to get a general idea. Clearly there will be some clearancing required, but most Tacoma owners are used to that.

Looking at these photos, I'm suddenly realizing that you are right, that the JBL speaker is pretty silly and small. What were they thinking?!

People on the internet are probably gonna say that installing these upgrade speakers is "illegal" or "unsafe". But they don't understand the importance of a high quality audio experience! Besides, the truck practically drives itself, so who needs to actually see out the windows?

 

[TacoFreak]

In my opinion it isn't really the speakers, but the electronics. The sound from the front doors is a muddy mess, and it isn't because of the quality of the speakers, but the way the system uses them. Better speakers don't help if what they get is garbage from the DSP. Add in the center speaker of low quality which dominates the sound field, and you get what I would expect as the base system in a truck.

I just accept it for what it is, a decent sound system, but hardly premium. The Beat Sonic I added improved the sound as much as it can be without replacing the entire system for big bucks.

I think they were more focused on the novelty of the removable front speaker than making a true premium sound system. Also, it is a pickup and we are not supposed to expect truly great sound in a truck, at least from Toyota's POV.

 

[The Dude]

Maybe I have been a bit tone deaf. I wanted to explain the positives of the JBL system and how it works, along with a small tweak that I thought made it sound better...but I wasn't really listening to your concerns!

To address your concerns directly, yes, I think you need to upgrade your system. It appears that your present and future happiness depends on it! But beware, an audio shop might do you like Toyota did, and install silly, unimpressive little speakers!

You keep talking about the little center channel, so lets focus on that. How hard would it be to install a bigger center channel speaker? I personally would opt for coaxial speaker, given the limited space.

And for the left and right, I really like my horn + compression drivers combo. These compression drivers are useful down to 500hz, so they can easily cross to the woofers in the door, which simplifies the design.

I took a few pictures just to get a general idea. Clearly there will be some clearancing required, but most Tacoma owners are used to that.

Looking at these photos, I'm suddenly realizing that you are right, that the JBL speaker is pretty silly and small. What were they thinking?!

People on the internet are probably gonna say that installing these upgrade speakers is "illegal" or "unsafe". But they don't understand the importance of a high quality audio experience! Besides, the truck practically drives itself, so who needs to actually see out the windows?

Aaaaaand…..here’s where I exit stage left. I was having a conversation, spirited though it may have been, which, last I checked was fine, and you’ve jumped straight to an attempt to mock me. That is fine, I have a thick skin, and goofy pictures don’t bother me at all. If they made you feel better, then great! And don’t worry about a shop ripping me off, like my own stunts, I do my own installs and tuning, sans center channels.

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