Non Hybrid 2024 ORD Battery Issues

[Romer]

I thought it was the loose terminal, but terminals have been tight since I discovered it a few weeks ago and clean

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[gpburdell]

My experinace with batteries has shown that cell problems relating to current can be intermittant and not show up as voltage problems. These are harder to isolate due to chemical. temperature and other factors

Yeah, that's where a proper load test is helpful. A failed battery might show a moderate open-circuit voltage, but suffer severe voltage drop when a load is applied. (I've experienced that once)

 

[Romer]

Yeah, that's where a proper load test is helpful. A failed battery might show a moderate open-circuit voltage, but suffer severe voltage drop when a load is applied. (I've experienced that once)

The dealer tested the Battery and said it was good. That has happened before with a bad cell over my years of auto ownership. An intermittant cell issue doesn't always manifest during a test.

I had them replace the battery anyways on my dime. They ended up putting a better True Start 00544-H7EFB-TS 760 Amp vs the stock 395LN4-MF 689 Amp it came with.

It happened now 3 times in two weeks and not the first start after it sat overnight or for several days. It was always after I drove it for 10-20 minutes and it sat for 5-10 minutes before I got back in to drive someplace else. When it failed, no starter cranking, but everything else worked and battery voltage was over 12V when it failed to start at least two times. Waiting an hour to retry or jumping it resolved the issue. The retry (after an hour) was a quick start, not a slow crank you would expect with a low battery. To me that says an intermittant current vs voltage issue. Current issues with normal voltage tend to be cell related.

Nothing in the electrical configuration has changed since I installed the GRMS radio in early June. We have been gone a few times for several weeks over the summer while it sat without issue. I have been driving it pretty regurlay over the last couple of months. It is in heated garage when it isnt being used.

It is possible it isn't the battery, so at least I have ruled something out if it happens again. I also believe the measurements and behaviour show it isnt a parasitic drain. I believe it was the battery, but only time will tell.

 

[32spoke]

Each cell contains 2.11 volts. Perhaps check the output terminal of the alternator for voltage while the engine is idling, should be in the 13-14 volt range, then immediately test the battery voltage with the engine running, should be the same. A battery that discharges from 12.65+ volts down to 12.4 volts will begin to degrade from the lead plates sulfating

 

[Yotota]

I thought it was the loose terminal, but terminals have been tight since I discovered it a few weeks ago and clean

Just to clarify...

You have cleaned both terminals and battery posts with a battery brush, and torqued the terminals to spec? And you've still experienced the starting issue since then?

Your issue sounds just like what I experienced, so I'm curious what else it could be. Once I started cleaning the terminals every oil change the issue stopped.

 

[Romer]

Each cell contains 2.11 volts. Perhaps check the output terminal of the alternator for voltage while the engine is idling, should be in the 13-14 volt range, then immediately test the battery voltage with the engine running, should be the same. A battery that discharges from 12.65+ volts down to 12.4 volts will begin to degrade from the lead plates sulfating

Alternator voltage was correct. You are correct it a Cell outright failed, it would drop around 2V. That is not what I am theorizing An intermittent failure due to a cracked connection would limit current without a significant voltage drop. I am theorizing that the intermittent issue is temp related. More likely when the battery gets to a certain temperature, but not above or below it. The temp effects a small crack to open enough to be an issue


I have seen multiple hard to define failures in building spacecraft over the years that have a similar threshold window for failure that you couldn’t understand the cause until you dissected the component in a failure analysis lab. These all ended up being mechanical in nature impacting a fatigue point within a certain temperature threshold.

Here is the data I had:

• Fully charged the battery went to 12.7V and stayed there over several days of testing
• When the failure occurs, it is at 12.1V when not trying to start
• After the failure and driving for a while, the battery resting in my garage was at 12.4V and I could not make it fail
• The failure does not occur when it has sat for days or in the cold
• The failure occurred 3 times, once after a 20 minute trip, once after a 15 minute trip and once after a 10 minute trip,
• In each failure, I tried to restart within 10 minutes of stopping
• In each failure, all the other electronics worked fine, no starter activity occurred
• The failure wouldd go away after the truck sat off for 40-60 minutes and would start right up.
• I tried the short trip and stop in my garage and was unable to recreate it
• After each failure even after driving for an hour I would hook it to my battery charger and it would show 2 out of 5 bars for the charge level even while showing 12.4 v then sitting in my garage
• The Battery passed the test at the dealer, but:
  • An AGM battery can pass a test but still be bad because tests miss intermittent issues, internal cell problems, or sulfation; the battery might work under a simple load but fail under real-world stress (like extreme temps, high accessory drain, or vibration) due to faulty cells, bad connections, or needing a full recharge/rest period before testing, even if it reads 12V but lacks Cold Cranking Amps (CCA) or drains quickly after the test.

If it was the charging circuit or a parasitic draw, I would think resting (and cooling) would not make it work again like a fully charged battery

I could be all wrong and it could be a charging issue or something else. I had no data to indicate that so I did the easy thing in changing the battery. It was the easiest thing for me to change in troubleshooting, true it cost $$, but moving forward trying something is always better to me.

I do appreciate all the comments. They are all valid Battery troubleshooting items and I am not ignoring them. Right now, the data with my engineer brain has led me down this path. Maybe I will be wrong, BUT I will have learned something by swapping the battery. I am not afraid to be wrong. It is part of the learning experiance.

Just to clarify...

You have cleaned both terminals and battery posts with a battery brush, and torqued the terminals to spec? And you've still experienced the starting issue since then?

Your issue sounds just like what I experienced, so I'm curious what else it could be. Once I started cleaning the terminals every oil change the issue stopped.

Yes, But I replaced the battery so thinking it is resolved. Time will tell.

 

[32spoke]

If you continue to have this darn problem, find some way to view alternator voltage while driving, not off the dash, but an independent gauge.. perhaps the alternator is intermittently not charging, if so.. is it receiving a faulty signal or is something bad within the alternator? Good luck and hope the problem has been resolved with your replacement battery

 

[Romer]

Good suggestion. I do have the OBD monitor capabilities. I will look to see if that will do what you suggest if it fails again

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