So tired of the dealership buying experience

[Lando]

You're paying sticker? I saw for the first few years after Covid new vehicles were going for MSRP and sometimes over. I'm glad I wasn't buying then. I just wonder if those days have made some car salesmen greedy now that it is back to somewhat normal.

Yes, MSRP on almost all Toyotas. A year ago when I got mine there was (is?) still a shortage on some in demand ones, the mini-van, Rav 4’s and Corollas basically were arriving pre sold! The only one you could possibly bargain on was the Tundra.

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[TheBandit]

I think Toyota is trying to get out ahead of this in the future with certain dealerships offering to buy completely online with no in-person negotiation. When I bought my 24 SR, I found the truck online at a dealership (difficult to find the manual SR’s in general) about 30 miles away. I walked in and asked to test drive the truck—they didn’t even know they had it on the lot. When I came back I told them exactly how much I was willing to pay and if they wouldn’t make that happen, I would find a dealership that would.

With how much money dealerships make on selling the financing, I understood that many do not like cash/check sales and would not be very willing to negotiate price down, especially on a truck that is so hard to find. I still walked out with the exact truck I wanted under the price I was willing to pay with very minimal discussion and they got the point that I didn’t want to buy any of the add-ons or extended warranties pretty quickly.

In the past, I have financed through 3rd parties and this eliminates most of the issues with the dealership trying to sell financing and any of this ticky tack behavior. I think, when possible, taking that leverage out of the “stealership’s” hands helps a lot with negotiation, especially if you make it clear you’re not afraid to get up and walk out. I probably would not have put up with as much of the nickel and diming as you did, if nothing else to prove a point

 

[izzy]

I think Toyota is trying to get out ahead of this in the future with certain dealerships offering to buy completely online with no in-person negotiation. When I bought my 24 SR, I found the truck online at a dealership (difficult to find the manual SR’s in general) about 30 miles away. I walked in and asked to test drive the truck—they didn’t even know they had it on the lot. When I came back I told them exactly how much I was willing to pay and if they wouldn’t make that happen, I would find a dealership that would.

With how much money dealerships make on selling the financing, I understood that many do not like cash/check sales and would not be very willing to negotiate price down, especially on a truck that is so hard to find. I still walked out with the exact truck I wanted under the price I was willing to pay with very minimal discussion and they got the point that I didn’t want to buy any of the add-ons or extended warranties pretty quickly.

In the past, I have financed through 3rd parties and this eliminates most of the issues with the dealership trying to sell financing and any of this ticky tack behavior. I think, when possible, taking that leverage out of the “stealership’s” hands helps a lot with negotiation, especially if you make it clear you’re not afraid to get up and walk out. I probably would not have put up with as much of the nickel and diming as you did, if nothing else to prove a point

They also don't give a fk if you're buying an SR. They don't make money on those, the longer you take with the salesman the less time he has to sell TrailHunter and TRD Pros

When I walked in to SF Toyota and said I'm buying that SR over there in cash and I don't want to sit in or test drive anything else they got the message.

This is basically how it felt:

 

[RokeHi]

I had no sales issues except for the added on Diamond Ceramic Protection by Penske Auto Group.

 

[TheBandit]

They also don't give a fk if you're buying an SR. They don't make money on those, the longer you take with the salesman the less time he has to sell TrailHunter and TRD Pros

When I walked in to SF Toyota and said I'm buying that SR over there in cash and I don't want to sit in or test drive anything else they got the message.

This is basically how it felt:

Fair enough

That pretty much summed it up perfectly, they went one time to ask if I was interested in test driving the TRDs, I said “no, here’s the stock # and vin number of the truck I want” and they practically started writing the paperwork for the SR.

All that said, I stand by my point. You should know exactly what you want, exactly what you’re willing to pay, and be prepared to walk out if you can’t get that

I also hate that dealerships have become more for collecting money as service centers and money lenders. Decreased quality of sale experience, and increased cost of maintenance is bad for owners

 

[Cold_Taco]

Fair enough

That pretty much summed it up perfectly, they went one time to ask if I was interested in test driving the TRDs, I said “no, here’s the stock # and vin number of the truck I want” and they practically started writing the paperwork for the SR.

All that said, I stand by my point. You should know exactly what you want, exactly what you’re willing to pay, and be prepared to walk out if you can’t get that

I also hate that dealerships have become more for collecting money as service centers and money lenders. Decreased quality of sale experience, and increased cost of maintenance is bad for owners

Well my salesman fought tooth and nail over my lowly SR5. Must have been an ego thing.

 

[TheBandit]

Well my salesman fought tooth and nail over my lowly SR5. Must have been an ego thing.

Think it also depends on location, I bought in Colorado where they're already selling a lot of TRD trailhunters and pros, I imagine they were just happy to sell me an SR to make room on the lot for more. I bet in other places, that "lowly SR5" is seen more as their cash cow compared to the rest of the vehicles they sell that are 10k less MSRP

 

[upstatetaco]

I know I'm going to sound crazy but please hear me out.

While I don't exactly enjoy buying cars at dealerships, upon reflection the other day I found myself actually appreciating that we have the opportunity to buy cars this way.

Looking at it objectively, almost no other purchase comes with so many advantages for the buyer. Think about it. The following things are true when you buy a car that are almost never true any time else:

• The price is negotiable. Dealers will sometimes even take a loss on a new car because of other incentives. You have a tremendous amount of leverage by starting a negotiation and walking away. Imagine doing that when shopping for a laptop or a TV... the salesman would just chuckle as you walked out the door. There's usually multiple dealers in the region competing fiercely for your business, and immense pressure from the manufacturer for the dealers to move vehicles, all driving prices down.
• You come in having a decent idea of what the dealer paid for the car and how much they stand to profit.
• You have the ability to bring in your old car to trade and they will often take it no matter what condition it's in. You have a really good idea of what your trade-in is worth and how much they stand to profit on it.
• You will only pay sales tax on the difference between your purchase price and your trade-in value.
• You can pay with any combination of cash, trade-in, and financing. You can bring your own financing or get financing right there at the dealership, often with artificially low rates from the manufacturer's in-house lending.

Now, obviously, buying a new car online is easier and spares you the headache of going down to a dealership, haggling, and protecting yourself from shady attempts to squeeze you on price. It's annoying to need "street smarts" in order to buy a car. But I think it's worth it, given that the system overall benefits us as buyers.

 

[Cold_Taco]

I know I'm going to sound crazy but please hear me out.

While I don't exactly enjoy buying cars at dealerships, upon reflection the other day I found myself actually appreciating that we have the opportunity to buy cars this way.

Looking at it objectively, almost no other purchase comes with so many advantages for the buyer. Think about it. The following things are true when you buy a car that are almost never true any time else:

• The price is negotiable. Dealers will sometimes even take a loss on a new car because of other incentives. You have a tremendous amount of leverage by starting a negotiation and walking away. Imagine doing that when shopping for a laptop or a TV... the salesman would just chuckle as you walked out the door. There's usually multiple dealers in the region competing fiercely for your business, and immense pressure from the manufacturer for the dealers to move vehicles, all driving prices down.
• You come in having a decent idea of what the dealer paid for the car and how much they stand to profit.
• You have the ability to bring in your old car to trade and they will often take it no matter what condition it's in. You have a really good idea of what your trade-in is worth and how much they stand to profit on it.
• You will only pay sales tax on the difference between your purchase price and your trade-in value.
• You can pay with any combination of cash, trade-in, and financing. You can bring your own financing or get financing right there at the dealership, often with artificially low rates from the manufacturer's in-house lending.

Now, obviously, buying a new car online is easier and spares you the headache of going down to a dealership, haggling, and protecting yourself from shady attempts to squeeze you on price. It's annoying to need "street smarts" in order to buy a car. But I think it's worth it, given that the system overall benefits us as buyers.

Definitely good points. Because I came in with a "no-dicker" price from a competing dealer I was hoping that this was already a fair offer that would avoid multiple trips to the sales manager's office. Who knows maybe some dealers would have gone even lower. But I wasn't expecting a full-blown 80's car buying experience. Maybe next time I'll just go to that competitor who advertises 6% off MSRP on their website. It's only 40 miles up the highway.

 

[maxx075]

I know I'm going to sound crazy but please hear me out.

While I don't exactly enjoy buying cars at dealerships, upon reflection the other day I found myself actually appreciating that we have the opportunity to buy cars this way.

Looking at it objectively, almost no other purchase comes with so many advantages for the buyer. Think about it. The following things are true when you buy a car that are almost never true any time else:

• The price is negotiable. Dealers will sometimes even take a loss on a new car because of other incentives. You have a tremendous amount of leverage by starting a negotiation and walking away. Imagine doing that when shopping for a laptop or a TV... the salesman would just chuckle as you walked out the door. There's usually multiple dealers in the region competing fiercely for your business, and immense pressure from the manufacturer for the dealers to move vehicles, all driving prices down.
• You come in having a decent idea of what the dealer paid for the car and how much they stand to profit.
• You have the ability to bring in your old car to trade and they will often take it no matter what condition it's in. You have a really good idea of what your trade-in is worth and how much they stand to profit on it.
• You will only pay sales tax on the difference between your purchase price and your trade-in value.
• You can pay with any combination of cash, trade-in, and financing. You can bring your own financing or get financing right there at the dealership, often with artificially low rates from the manufacturer's in-house lending.

Now, obviously, buying a new car online is easier and spares you the headache of going down to a dealership, haggling, and protecting yourself from shady attempts to squeeze you on price. It's annoying to need "street smarts" in order to buy a car. But I think it's worth it, given that the system overall benefits us as buyers.

Just playing devil's advocate here, but I also don't have to research and learn the tactics that salesmen use when buying other products. Things like what a buy rate is vs what the dealership offers, that each and every dealer added accessory has a contract that you can point out the words not mandatory, the out the door price, etc.

They make it as hard and confusing as possible to swindle you out of as much money as possible.

 

[upstatetaco]

Just playing devil's advocate here, but I also don't have to research and learn the tactics that salesmen use when buying other products. Things like what a buy rate is vs what the dealership offers, that each and every dealer added accessory has a contract that you can point out the words not mandatory, the out the door price, etc.

They make it as hard and confusing as possible to swindle you out of as much money as possible.

No question you are right. It's like when guys who are super handy and have every tool are like "oh yeah just do it yourself, you'll save so much time and money." But, having now been through half a dozen car buying experiences in 25+ years, I feel like I kinda get it, and I'm no longer sufficiently intimidated that I would rather non-transparent "easy" deals and have ignorance be bliss.

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