Wide VS Narrow Tires (Pizza Cutters to Wide)

[BigDan]

And this was another really good wide vs. narrow tire comparison from a few months ago.

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[izzy]

Skinny tire is the way.

I'm going from 265/70/17 to 255/75/17, true 32 and slightly more narrow. Once these BFGs are more cooked

Still not that skinny to be honest. Tread width is still 10" which is pretty wide.

 

[TrailAdventurer]

I've enjoyed both of those. Both producers created good content to pursue an answer. I particularly liked how they both collaborated. Touch of class.

 

[Yotota]

I've seen both videos. Neither one actually tests the tires in real conditions.

Tire width affects the feel and performance for daily driving, snow, sand, mud, rocks, and... Everything. And I'm not just talking about the carcass width - tread width has an even larger impact.

Load rating also plays into this significantly on light trucks like Toyotas since most skinny tires are dually truck tires, and are therefore E-Rated (which are too stiff to perform as designed on a 5000lb midsize truck).

On Toyotas, I've driven tires from 235mm wide with a 7.5" tread width, up to 13.5" wide with a solid 13.5" tread width. "Skinny" tires (235-255mm carcass width) have some marginal benefits in certain conditions but at the expense of road feel, road handling & performance, comfort, mud performance, deep snow performance, and more. I'll never go back to skinny tires.

 

[tacorancher]

I've seen both videos. Neither one actually tests the tires in real conditions.

Tire width affects the feel and performance for daily driving, snow, sand, mud, rocks, and... Everything. And I'm not just talking about the carcass width - tread width has an even larger impact.

Load rating also plays into this significantly on light trucks like Toyotas since most skinny tires are dually truck tires, and are therefore E-Rated (which are too stiff to perform as designed on a 5000lb midsize truck).

On Toyotas, I've driven tires from 235mm wide with a 7.5" tread width, up to 13.5" wide with a solid 13.5" tread width. "Skinny" tires (235-255mm carcass width) have some marginal benefits in certain conditions but at the expense of road feel, road handling & performance, comfort, mud performance, deep snow performance, and more. I'll never go back to skinny tires.

Finally the counterpoint that I’ve been unable to articulate — I’ll also say that wet weather driving - which we’ve got a ton of in south Texas - is WAY superior with wider tires. Wider tires are also better if you DO NOT plan to air down all the time off-road - I love my 285s including how they look

 

[Briscoelab]

I've always been a big proponent of skinny for a given height. But not necessarily just full skinny over everything else. Too far of an extreme will definitely impact on road feel and handling.

285/70/r17 is as wide as I'd go for a ~"33" and they are a really nice mix for most situations. But I've found that rough width is better suited for a 34-35" tire. Way back in the past I've used 235/80r16, 255/85R16 or 255/80R17... all with good results. These are on the skinnier size range, but the 33" size does work well in the 255 width for 16" and 17" wheels.

35x11r17 AT4W, load C, have been my fav all around tire. But the various 285/75R17 are great too. I even tried the very skinny (for 35" size) 255/85R17 mickey Thomson Baja Boss AT. Those were amazing off-road and in the snow. But a bit suboptimal on the road. (they also wore funny and got loud, which soured me a bit).

If on 18" wheels, the 275/70R18 is a great option and taller than the common 285/70R17. Moving up a notch, the 285/70 and 285/75R18s are both a great balance for the 18" wheel if you're looking for a 34 or 35.

I have never enjoyed the ubiquitous 315 width (or 12.5") "35" options, despite trying lots. Never enjoyed the road feel, rain performance wasn't great, and they just looked too wide (to me) for the height. Reminded me too much of the old "true" 33x12.5R15 look.

Moving up from there, 37" tires have always worked best (for me) at a 12.5" size.They also looked proportional. But I'd definitely give an 11.5" a try if one existed. I've only used this size class of tire (or larger) in wheel sizes up to a 17".

Last thought centers around various Toyota powertrains I've experienced really seeming to prefer a skinnier tire, despite what the torque/HP numbers might suggest. (Various Tacomas, including the hybrid 4th gen, LC250, and even 70 series I've driven outside of the country... especially if those had the 1HZ tractor motor).

 

[tacorancher]

I've always been a big proponent of skinny for a given height. But not necessarily just full skinny over everything else. Too far of an extreme will definitely impact on road feel and handling.

285/70/r17 is as wide as I'd go for a ~"33" and they are a really nice mix for most situations. But I've found that rough width is better suited for a 34-35" tire. Way back in the past I've used 235/80r16, 255/85R16 or 255/80R17... all with good results. These are on the skinnier size range, but the 33" size does work well in the 255 width for 16" and 17" wheels.

35x11r17 AT4W, load C, have been my fav all around tire. But the various 285/75R17 are great too. I even tried the very skinny (for 35" size) 255/85R17 mickey Thomson Baja Boss AT. Those were amazing off-road and in the snow. But a bit suboptimal on the road. (they also wore funny and got loud, which soured me a bit).

If on 18" wheels, the 275/70R18 is a great option and taller than the common 285/70R17. Moving up a notch, the 285/70 and 285/75R18s are both a great balance for the 18" wheel if you're looking for a 34 or 35.

I have never enjoyed the ubiquitous 315 width (or 12.5") "35" options, despite trying lots. Never enjoyed the road feel, rain performance wasn't great, and they just looked too wide (to me) for the height. Reminded me too much of the old "true" 33x12.5R15 look.

Moving up from there, 37" tires have always worked best (for me) at a 12.5" size.They also looked proportional. But I'd definitely give an 11.5" a try if one existed. I've only used this size class of tire (or larger) in wheel sizes up to a 17".

Last thought centers around various Toyota powertrains I've experienced really seeming to prefer a skinnier tire, despite what the torque/HP numbers might suggest. (Various Tacomas, including the hybrid 4th gen, LC250, and even 70 series I've driven outside of the country... especially if those had the 1HZ tractor motor).

Well said. Agreed on all counts. 275/70/18 is indeed a great size for 18” wheels but one should try to find them in 33.4” versus the more common 33.2” diameter.

 

[Yotota]

Finally the counterpoint that I’ve been unable to articulate — I’ll also say that wet weather driving - which we’ve got a ton of in south Texas - is WAY superior with wider tires. Wider tires are also better if you DO NOT plan to air down all the time off-road - I love my 285s including how they look

Spot on. I'm in the PNW, which is WET for a solid 50% of the year, damp for 25% of the year, and dry-ish for the other 25%.

Skinny tires feel very sketchy on wet asphalt. Add in some road debris or uneven surfaces and traction will snap loose much quicker. Skinny tires also need higher psi to have an equivalent load rating which further reduces handling and comfort.

The only place where skinny tires have benefits are cutting through moderate amounts of loose material to get to hard pack traction. 4" of snow over gravel, light mud over hardpack dirt, light sand over packed sand or dirt, etc.

Once the loose material gets much deeper than, say, 5-6", the skinny tires want to dig straight down much quicker. They would need to be aired down much lower than an equivalent diameter wider tire to get the same effective flotation, and reduce digging.

On a daily driver modern Toyota, 265 is as narrow as I will ever run. 275 is best IMO. 285 is good too, but then you are getting into larger and heavier tires which start to have their own drawbacks.

 

[izzy]

I’ll also say that wet weather driving - which we’ve got a ton of in south Texas - is WAY superior with wider tires.

This is not true. Wider tires require more tread depth to move the water from the center of the tire, off the shoulder of the tire.

Skinnier tires hydroplane less easily and don't require as much siping to move water from the center of the tread.

If you are running out of grip on a 10" wide tire (say 255/75/17) you're just driving too fast for the conditions (common Tacoma owner thing apparently). Slow down when its wet.

Trucks already have worse handling characteristics than a car in the wet just based on the weight distribution alone. It's not a sports car, it's okay to go the speed the sign says around the corner, nobody is going to judge you for going slow in a truck

Edit:

Also you're not going to find a modern TA/AT/All Season without lots of silica in the compound, which improves wet performance a lot. Modern tires have never been better at wet performance. Tacoma is not under-tire from the factory in any trim.

You guys just need to drive slower lol 4500lb will do a lot of damage when you hit something/someone.

 

[tacorancher]

This is not true. Wider tires require more tread depth to move the water from the center of the tire, off the shoulder of the tire.

Skinnier tires hydroplane less easily and don't require as much siping to move water from the center of the tread.

If you are running out of grip on a 10" wide tire (say 255/75/17) you're just driving too fast for the conditions (common Tacoma owner thing apparently). Slow down when its wet.

Trucks already have worse handling characteristics than a car in the wet just based on the weight distribution alone. It's not a sports car, it's okay to go the speed the sign says around the corner, nobody is going to judge you for going slow in a truck

Edit:

Also you're not going to find a modern TA/AT/All Season without lots of silica in the compound, which improves wet performance a lot. Modern tires have never been better at wet performance. Tacoma is not under-tire from the factory in any trim.

You guys just need to drive slower lol 4500lb will do a lot of damage when you hit something/someone.

Hydroplaning and wet weather grip are two different things. Falken actually made all their tires a tad wider than spec in the AT4 for added wet weather grip. No idea how you’re making any assumptions about my driving speed. It rains a lot in Houston so added lateral grip is always helpful and wider tires have more contact and better lateral grip.

We are making counterpoints on a subject that has gone way far on one side of the scale. People used to think wider was better until the benefits of skinny tires were discovered (or rediscovered) in the last decade. But people have over indexed on the supposed benefits thinking that wide tires have no benefits and it’s not true.

Also if you live in a wet area, you’ll never have too much lateral grip no matter what speed. And you may have to make evasive maneuvers. So I just don’t agree.

And the point on PSI and ride comfort is also spot on. There are benefits. I prefer wide tires. Everyone can do what they like.

 

[izzy]

Hydroplaning and wet weather grip are two different things. Falken actually made all their tires a tad wider than spec in the AT4 for added wet weather grip. No idea how you’re making any assumptions about my driving speed. It rains a lot in Houston so added lateral grip is always helpful and wider tires have more contact and better lateral grip.

Wider tires always perform worse in the wet. You need to siphon water away from the tire as fastly as possible, so what happens when you increase surface area of the tire..

You do have more dry lateral grip but we're talking about a pickup truck here not a sports cars so nobody should be mobbing down on ramps anyways. The rollover risk sticker on the visor wasn't put there just for fun.

 

[tacorancher]

Wider tires always perform worse in the wet. You need to siphon water away from the tire as fastly as possible, so what happens when you increase surface area of the tire..

You do have more dry lateral grip but we're talking about a pickup truck here not a sports cars so nobody should be mobbing down on ramps anyways. The rollover risk sticker on the visor wasn't put there just for fun.

It is a complex question for sure, but your absolutist statement about narrower always being better in wet is not true. Otherwise a bicycle tire width tire would be the best in wet. We can talk about the right balancing point but you’re not interested in a discussion (or it doesn’t seem like it).

Again, it is always better to have more lateral grip at any speed and that includes unexpected evasive maneuvers. The comment on the visor warning is just a bit trolly. We don’t need to engage further on this I don’t think.

 

[Mini2nut]

I went from a meaty Falken 285/75/17 down to a Nitto G3 275/70/17 tire. The narrower tire is perfect. I couldn’t be happier with my new Nitto’s.

The 285’s felt like I was riding on balloons, especially around corners. They looked great but the compromise wasn’t it worth it.

 

[tacorancher]

I went from a meaty Falken 285/75/17 down to a Nitto G3 275/70/17 tire. The narrower tire is perfect. I couldn’t be happier with my new Nitto’s.

The 285’s felt like I was riding on balloons, especially around corners. They looked great but the compromise wasn’t it worth it.

I did not notice much difference going from 275s to 285s. It might also have to do with the fact that the 285/75/17 Falkens are monster heavy tires.

 

[izzy]

Otherwise a bicycle tire width tire would be the best in wet.

This is actually true and why bicycle tires don't need tread at all to be safe in the wet. The PSI of the contact patch surface area is so high the water is squished away.

Some small motorcycles/scooters mostly have tread for looks, once you get to larger street bikes the tread actually plays a little part in moving water.

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