5w-30

[DENNISD]

There are MANY variables in play when it comes to engine wear and longevity: the nature of the miles driven/miles per cold start, load placed on the engine before reaching operating temperature, load placed on the engine generally (towing/climbing grades), average engine speed, total vehicle wheight, drain interval relationship between miles and time, engine oil chemistry between brands, AND oil viscosity. I wouldn't be using 5-30 if I lived in North Dakota, and I wouldn't run 0-20 if I lived in Arizona.

The point is, there are more variables in play than a one-size-fits-all recommendation can cover in totality. Keep in mind, not many average Tacoma owners meet the 0-20 10k "ideal" schedule to begin with, and UOA shows that 5K intervals for average owners are on the long end.

The other question for wear and protection is the time frame. Are we even exchanging on the same goal? Most owners don't reach 200k miles on their vehicles.
https://autorecyclingworld.com/how-long-do-cars-really-last-in-the-usa-a-2024-deep-dive/

If cars with 0w baseweight oils, going 10k between drains with turbos and low tension rings are well proven to go 200k, I'd like to see the evidence for that. By my standard, I see the opposite, lots of folks going off the recommendations, burning a quart every thousand miles, and scrapping the car 50k miles before they "should" be.

I think this is one of the more balanced posts in the thread because it acknowledges there are many variables affecting engine life, not just viscosity.

Where I'd be cautious is the last conclusion. Seeing vehicles that consume oil or are retired before 200,000 miles doesn't necessarily mean the recommended viscosity caused it. There are simply too many other variables involved.

I think we probably agree on the bigger picture: oil viscosity is one factor among many. The challenge is separating cause from correlation.

That's why I've been hesitant to conclude that moving from 0W-20 to 5W-30 will measurably improve long-term durability in the T24A-FTS. It may, or it may not—but I don't think we've seen evidence strong enough to isolate viscosity from all the other variables yet.

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[Miqie]

How does 0W-30 or 0W-40 fit into this? Seems like it solves both ends.........flow in the cold and protection in the hot.

 

[Andrace]

That's why I've been hesitant to conclude that moving from 0W-20 to 5W-30 will measurably improve long-term durability in the T24A-FTS. It may, or it may not—but I don't think we've seen evidence strong enough to isolate viscosity from all the other variables yet.
[/QUOTE]

For that, I lean on what we know from chemistry and physics.

Oil weight is one of the variables, and an important one. Thankfully, we don't need long-term engine teardown testing; physics and chemistry provide us with what we need to make intelligent choices. Higher film strength = better protection. AND these averages from the wrecking yards are on older cars. I have a feeling the newer stuff won't hold up as well. What changed: OEM incentives, a race to the bottom of total cost of ownership, and fuel mileage. They didn't go the path they did for the consumer.

I reject your UOA position as well. A one-off oil sample doesn't disprove the macro guideline in itself, but if one test doesn't validate the broad one-size-fits-all OEM guideline, I reject that guideline. Evidence is evidence, and it's foolhardy to reject what samples are telling you.

 

[aaudiholic]

How does 0W-30 or 0W-40 fit into this? Seems like it solves both ends.........flow in the cold and protection in the hot.

I’ve been using 0W-40 in mine. My partner and I have VW/Audis that we’ve put serious miles on with original Turbo and Timing chains(one has 325k miles).

They all use 0W-40, not saying that it’s the reason for their long life but it is easier to have one oil for all cars. The Tacoma is doing exceptionally well and has gotten a lot quieter since switching.

I did a UOA after 4000 miles of M1 0W40, the engine was still too new to get much from it, but it is a good base point for future UOA

 

[IDontWorkForTheWaterCo]

How does 0W-30 or 0W-40 fit into this? Seems like it solves both ends.........flow in the cold and protection in the hot.

It would depend on just how cold air temps would get. If one is seeing extreme cold, like lower than -20° F, then using a 0w might make a difference. But anything above that, and the difference between 0w and 5w is negligible. In many cases the 5w30 would be more sheer stable than 0w30 because it has less friction modifiers. As a general rule, the less difference between the W (winter)# and the second #, the more sure stable the oil is. That's why 0w20 oils tend to be very sheer stable. Where it can get tricky is 0w20 don't leave a lot of headroom for fuel dilution. The less viscous (thinner) an oil is, the more likely it is to fall out of grade with dilution.

I'm not sure about the T24 engine, as it's new to me. I've had my truck less than 2 months. But I can tell you that other Dynamic Force engines, A25 and M20, run fairly low oil temps at operating temperatures, making anything above 5w30 unnecessary. There oil temps are usually under 200°.

 

[BLtheP]

My oil temps are usually around 225-230° at sustained highway driving. I find myself uninterested in 0W-20. I’m not going to bother with UOAs to prove anything, I’m just running 5W-40 Euro because I know it cannot hurt. You only need enough film strength to do the job, beyond that, more isn’t better. However, I’m unwilling to do a bunch of testing to find where that point is and so I will just run it this way. I do not trust that any manufacturers, Toyota included, tell us 0W-20 for our best interest. It is to meet efficiency goals set by the government.

I’ve been down to 0°F like this with zero issues whatsoever and the engine runs like a dream. Good enough for me.

 

[aaudiholic]

My oil temps are usually around 225-230° at sustained highway driving. I find myself uninterested in 0W-20. I’m not going to bother with UOAs to prove anything, I’m just running 5W-40 Euro because I know it cannot hurt. You only need enough film strength to do the job, beyond that, more isn’t better. However, I’m unwilling to do a bunch of testing to find where that point is and so I will just run it this way. I do not trust that any manufacturers, Toyota included, tell us 0W-20 for our best interest. It is to meet efficiency goals set by the government.

I’ve been down to 0°F like this with zero issues whatsoever and the engine runs like a dream. Good enough for me.

I do the same and will continue to do so. All my Euro cars use this oil so it makes it easier to keep up with as well.

I switch between 0W and 5W 40, depends what liqui moly or Motul is on sale that month.

 

[IDontWorkForTheWaterCo]

UOA can't tell everything and the accuracy of the results can depend on who does the testing. I know there's some hate out there for Blackstone. But I'm genuinely curious as to what Lakespeed finds with his Tacoma. I'll be watching it closely. Personally, I agree with some of his initial assessment. If a 0w20 can stay in grade, it's fine. But that's a big if. If you live in a cold environment and idle and/or short trip frequently, I don't see how that oil wouldn't become diluted and fall out of grade.

 

[Andrace]

My oil temps are usually around 225-230° at sustained highway driving. I find myself uninterested in 0W-20. I’m not going to bother with UOAs to prove anything, I’m just running 5W-40 Euro because I know it cannot hurt. You only need enough film strength to do the job, beyond that, more isn’t better. However, I’m unwilling to do a bunch of testing to find where that point is and so I will just run it this way. I do not trust that any manufacturers, Toyota included, tell us 0W-20 for our best interest. It is to meet efficiency goals set by the government.

I’ve been down to 0°F like this with zero issues whatsoever and the engine runs like a dream. Good enough for me.

Those seem high to me.
I'm at sea level on the coast and sit at 200-205f at my usual cruising speed of 72/73 mph.
The only time I've seen oil temps up there was up a grade at speed in Death Valley at about 95 degrees. On a banks iDash for what it's worth. Also interesting that oil pressure starts to drop at anything over ~212. Usually 60lbs at highway speed, but dropped down to about 53lbs at 220f. 5w-20, not that engine sacrificing 0w stuff ;).

 

[IDontWorkForTheWaterCo]

Those seem high to me.
I'm at sea level on the coast and sit at 200-205f at my usual cruising speed of 72/73 mph.
The only time I've seen oil temps up there was up a grade at speed in Death Valley at about 95 degrees. On a banks iDash for what it's worth. Also interesting that oil pressure starts to drop at anything over ~212. Usually 60lbs at highway speed, but dropped down to about 53lbs at 220f. 5w-20, not that engine sacrificing 0w stuff ;).

Both 0w20 and 5w20 will behave almost identically at operating temperatures. That said, it's good to see you are seeing 200° oil temps. Can I ask how you are measuring it?

 

[aaudiholic]

Both 0w20 and 5w20 will behave almost identically at operating temperatures. That said, it's good to see you are seeing 200° oil temps. Can I ask how you are measuring it?

I too would like to know how you’re getting these temps. My 26 only has a dummy meter without actual numbers.

 

[BLtheP]

The relevant question for me isn't "What oil does a turbo manufacturer generally like?" It's "What oil provides the best long-term outcome in the T24A-FTS as an integrated engine?"

The turbo is the pickiest thing on the engine. Nothing else on the engine cares. You need an oil that holds up to the turbo, and generally speaking, turbo manufacturers do not recommend 0W-20 for their turbos.

Those seem high to me.
I'm at sea level on the coast and sit at 200-205f at my usual cruising speed of 72/73 mph.
The only time I've seen oil temps up there was up a grade at speed in Death Valley at about 95 degrees. On a banks iDash for what it's worth. Also interesting that oil pressure starts to drop at anything over ~212. Usually 60lbs at highway speed, but dropped down to about 53lbs at 220f. 5w-20, not that engine sacrificing 0w stuff ;).

I dunno, if I’m at milder speeds like city, it’s more around 200-215°, on the highway in 4th or 5th it’s about 225° but has been as high as 228°. I don’t even use 6th because my tires (34”) make it pretty much have to boost constantly. Maybe it’s just the combo of tires and thicker oil. I never checked temps when on the factory fill.

I got home today at 198° but it’s a bit cooler out today and that was after 15 minutes of city following the 25 minutes of highway.

Both 0w20 and 5w20 will behave almost identically at operating temperatures. That said, it's good to see you are seeing 200° oil temps. Can I ask how you are measuring it?

Your quote wasn’t directed at me but I use BlueDriver if it helps.

 

[Andrace]

Both 0w20 and 5w20 will behave almost identically at operating temperatures. That said, it's good to see you are seeing 200° oil temps. Can I ask how you are measuring it?

On the Banks iDash. I also have temp sensors going to my MT and Rear Diff fill plugs.

Regarding weights being weights and they're all the same, this is unconfirmed and not published, but ratings were posted on the forums, a reply from Valovline support regarding their HTHS values.
https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/t...d-protect-hths.399575/?utm_source=chatgpt.com

Letting ChatGPT do some of the research for me (this is a snippet)

So if those Restore & Protect numbers are real, the practical interpretation would be:

Restore & Protect 0W-20 at 2.65 cP
This would be a fairly fuel-economy-leaning 20-grade. It would still meet the SAE 20 hot-shear floor, but it would sit close to the minimum, suggesting Valvoline optimized it more toward low drag / efficiency / cold-flow friendliness than toward maximum hot-shear thickness. That does not mean it is “bad” or unsafe if your engine is designed for it; modern OEMs often specify oils in this range intentionally.


Restore & Protect 5W-20 at 3.17 cP
This would be a much stouter oil under load than most people expect from a 20-grade. A 3.17 cP HTHS sits well above the SAE 20 minimum and even overlaps the broader low-HS/low-SAPS European fuel-economy territory where minimum HTHS is often 2.9 or higher, depending on spec. In practice, that would usually mean thicker oil film under hot load, potentially a little more margin for wear control, noise damping, and oil consumption resistance, at the possible expense of a bit of fuel economy.

 

[IDontWorkForTheWaterCo]

The turbo is the pickiest thing on the engine. Nothing else on the engine cares. You need an oil that holds up to the turbo, and generally speaking, turbo manufacturers do not recommend 0W-20 for their turbos.
Your quote wasn’t directed at me but I use BlueDriver if it helps.

Also, from everything I've read over the years, as long as it's under 250° 0w20 can handle that....assuming it's in grade. But in your case, with larger and I'm sure heavier tires, I think I too would run 5w30, though it sounds like you're running 0w/5w40.

 

[IDontWorkForTheWaterCo]

On the Banks iDash. I also have temp sensors going to my MT and Rear Diff fill plugs.

Regarding weights being weights and they're all the same, this is unconfirmed and not published, but ratings were posted on the forums, a reply from Valovline support regarding their HTHS values.
https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/t...d-protect-hths.399575/?utm_source=chatgpt.com

Letting ChatGPT do some of the research for me (this is a snippet)

So if those Restore & Protect numbers are real, the practical interpretation would be:

Restore & Protect 0W-20 at 2.65 cP
This would be a fairly fuel-economy-leaning 20-grade. It would still meet the SAE 20 hot-shear floor, but it would sit close to the minimum, suggesting Valvoline optimized it more toward low drag / efficiency / cold-flow friendliness than toward maximum hot-shear thickness. That does not mean it is “bad” or unsafe if your engine is designed for it; modern OEMs often specify oils in this range intentionally.


Restore & Protect 5W-20 at 3.17 cP
This would be a much stouter oil under load than most people expect from a 20-grade. A 3.17 cP HTHS sits well above the SAE 20 minimum and even overlaps the broader low-HS/low-SAPS European fuel-economy territory where minimum HTHS is often 2.9 or higher, depending on spec. In practice, that would usually mean thicker oil film under hot load, potentially a little more margin for wear control, noise damping, and oil consumption resistance, at the possible expense of a bit of fuel economy.

Oh definitely. There are "light" and "heavy" KV100 scores on all grades. I just meant from a practical stand point, it would tough to measure a big difference in performance between a 0w20 and a 5w20 given that they will both perform as 20's at operating temperature.

An argument could be made that on average a 5w20 could potentially be slightly more sheer stable than a 0w20 do to less friction modifiers.....assuming the 5w20 is a synthetic.

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